January 15, 2018

My favorite linguistic issue ever: What if Trump didn't say "shithole" but "shithouse"?

Have you seen this one? National Review editor Rich Lowry was on "This Week" yesterday and this happened:
STEPHANOPOULOS: It's pretty clear [President Trump] said what's been reported. By denying it, he puts his supporters in the most difficult position.

LOWRY: He used a different -- my understanding from the meeting, he used a different, but very closely related vulgarity. He said s-house, and not s-hole. That's not going to make a difference to anyone. But the general remarks -- yes -- I'd like to have a transcript, because everyone is putting so much weight on this to see exactly what was said in what ways, but the general tenor of the discussion has been reported accurately.
Not going to make a difference to anyone?! Now I'm determined to find a shithouse/shithole distinction.

Historically, going back to the 1600s, "shithole" first meant "The rectum or anus." (I'm using the OED.) "Shithole" took on other meanings in the early 20th century: "a wretched place," "a toilet." And in the late 20th century, it also became an alternative to "asshole" to mean "a despicable person."

"Shithouse," going back to the 1600s, meant "toilet," usually an outdoor toilet — a "privy" or "outhouse." The oldest published usage is (like Trump's purported use) metaphorical:
1659 J. Howell Ital. Prov. Let. Ital. Prov. sig. A4v, in Παροιμιογραϕια If Florence had a Sea Port, she would make a Hortyard of Pisa, a Counting-house of Ligorn, and a shitt-house of Luca.
Like "shithole," "shithouse" came to mean "a wretched place" in the 20th century. The first published use was in 1949, in Henry Miller's "Sexus": "You leave the toilet and you step into the big shithouse. Whatever you touch is shitty."

And here's Martin Amis in "London Fields" in 1989:
The class system just doesn't know when to call it a day. Even a nuclear holocaust, I think, would fail to make that much of a dent in it. Crawling through the iodized shithouse that used to be England, people would still be brooding about accents and cocked pinkies, about maiden names and settee or sofa, about the proper way to eat a roach in society. Do you take the head off first or start with the legs?
Ha ha. Settee or sofa. It's so like shithouse or shithole. And yet so different.

Anyway, "shithouse" also came to mean "despicable person" in the 20th century (at least in Britain). And it's been an adjective meaning "contemptible, bad, disgusting" at least since 1966, when Charles Bukowski wrote in a letter, "The flunky fired from his shithouse job, the guys like me."

There are also the phrases: "To be in the shithouse" (as in "Fleetwood Mac's career was definitely not in the shithouse") and "shithouse rumor" ("All you had was a shithouse rumor" (heh, that's all we have about Trump and "shithouse")) and the well-known "shithouse rat" ("Cute as a shithouse rat," wrote the lowly, lowry cur James Joyce in that shithouse book "Ulysses").

I've got to say, if Trump said it, I hope he said "shithouse." First, I like the resonance with his real estate career. It's the humblest real estate, a shithouse. "Shithole" has more of an anatomical whiff to it — not that Trump doesn't also have his connection to body parts (tiny hands, grabbed pussies, differently sized penises).

ADDED: There's also the subtle topic of what goes on in the mind of a person who hears "shithouse" and later drags "shithole" up out of his memory. If the wrong word was reported, what caused the house-to-hole substitution? Phobia about human anatomy?

349 comments:

1 – 200 of 349   Newer›   Newest»
rhhardin said...

There's Althole and Althouse that may affect the preference.

Ralph L said...

I thought calling someone a brick shithouse was a compliment.

tcrosse said...

Trump's being elected President was an example of Shithouse Luck.

Ron said...

"The saddest words are: 'Might Have Been'"
The Shithouse Poet Rhymes Again



Vonnegut, I think

JHapp said...

Republicans want a small shithole and Democrats want a big shithole. Libertarians believe we can live without a shithole. Some Democrats have even said we just need a smart shithole. Trump was of course referring to the governments not the people.
I love the shithole comment. Let's stay with shithole, and not shithouse.

M Jordan said...

What a hollow world the left has given us after eight years of Obama. Saying shithole — or shithouse, dealers choice — is now an impeachable racist act while living a life dealing with thousands of hotel maids, bellhops, and construction workers without a single accusation of racism means nothing.

The left has been twisting truth since the day the serpent whispered in Eve’s ear, “Has God really said ...”

Unknown said...

The shithouse that is Congress makes our political landscape a shithole.

- james james

Tank said...

Tankhouse has two favorite "shit" usages.

1. "The Shitter" for that little room in southern (our) bathrooms that contains just the toilet. It's a little weird in there. Like crapping in a closet.

2. "The Shit List" which is where you end up when you cross Mr. or Mrs. Tank. Sometimes it's a short trip from the short list to the shit list.

Ray - SoCal said...

I still don’t see this as a negative comment by Trump. He spoke the truth.

Democrats as usual are trying to paint Trump as a racist by leaking. Hoping he will roll over and play dead.

I’m surprised he had not hit back. Durbin with his nasty remark on us troops being like Nazis. Graham with his hellhole remark.

We will see what happens - definitely not a boring Presidency!

Fernandinande said...

I like the idea, perhaps seen here, of pronunciating "shithole" like "frijole", namely "shee-thoe-lay" (or -"lee").

tcrosse said...

Holy Shit !

Bob Boyd said...

There's a shithole under every shithouse.

Hagar said...

Trump only denied using "that exact language," later confirmed by a couple of brave R senators.

Dick Durbin still needs to explain going on camera and insisting that "that exact language" was used, and he clearly heard it.

Hagar said...

Is it just me, or is the 24/7 media making more noise about less and less ever faster?
It is getting very hard to keep up!

Dad Bones said...

There are shit countries and the better countries the shitians escape to.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

So this is the fallback position?

robother said...

On the other hand, Dick Durbin IS a lying piece of shit. Sad!

dreams said...

Washington is the shithouse and the crooked Dems and the liberal media is the shit. A bunch of liberal Democrat shit.

traditionalguy said...

Bullshitting about shit holes is a suicide mission. The sole result it can accomplish for the Dem's Media Arm is to try and start race riots while some of Soros's paid apparatchiks are still reporting for work.

And frankly, I am beyond fed up with people trying to have me attacked, enslaved and killed for the crime of being a white man.

Leslie Graves said...

I was a mortgage loan officer, briefly, in my 20s. This is where I first heard the term "****box". This was used to refer to certain houses that people were seeking loans on, either for a purchase or a refinance. The appraiser would call back to the office and say "it's your basic ****box".

Joe Biden, America's Putin said...

Who cares? The only reason it matters is because the left hate Trump and will use any gristle of nothingburger to destroy him.

Shithole shithouse. Some nations are run by corrupt leftwing dictators and they ARE shitholes.
The democrats are jealous.

Ann Althouse said...

Who wouldn't love to see Durbin drilled over why he said "shithole" when the word was "shithouse"?

"Shithole" sounds uglier because "hole" unlike "house" feels like an independent insult.

Why was Courtney Love's band called <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hole_(band)>Hole</a>? I'd always assumed it was a rude word for vagina:

"Love had originally wanted to name the band Sweet Baby Crystal Powered by God, but opted for the name Hole instead. During an interview on Later... with Jools Holland, Love claimed the name for the band was inspired by a quote from Euripides' Medea that read: "There is a hole that pierces right through me." Additionally, Love cited a conversation with her mother as being the primary inspiration for the band's name, in which she told her that she couldn't live her life "with a hole running through her." Love also acknowledged the "obvious" genital reference in the band's name, alluding to the vagina, though stated that the primary source of the name was the conversation between her and her mother."

Joe Biden, America's Putin said...

We should let the left turn America into a shithole. If we don't it proves we are all racists.

mockturtle said...

Shithole is far more descriptive of Haiti than is shithouse. The term 'hole', on its own, is often used to describe a squalid place.

The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...

I’m good either way. The truth shall set you free. Trump understands that and, rather than waste a lot of time on denials, he will double down in some form. And the Left will continue to rave about racist shitholes because, Dude, that’s a winning strategy if ever there was one.

dreams said...

Dick Durbin and Chuck Schumer are a couple of psychopaths but they're not the only two in the Democratic party and not to exclude the liberal media.

Ann Althouse said...

@Leslie Graves

"Shitbox" is in the OED, meaning " a dilapidated, messy, or poor-quality vehicle or house." Examples:

1966 Ramparts Feb. 45/2 I come from Oakland, the shitbox of the West.
1968 R. H. Rimmer Proposition Thirty-One xiii. 247 My God, Horace, this house of yours is a shit box.
1969 R. Frede Coming-out Party vi. 158 I'll be very surprised if this shitbox ever takes to the air again.
2004 N. Flynn Another Bullshit Night in Suck City i. 13 I had a car, some shitbox I'd borrowed or finessed.

Bob Boyd said...

Fernandistein said...
"I like the idea, perhaps seen here, of pronunciating "shithole" like "frijole", namely "shee-thoe-lay" (or -"lee")."

I remember an old SNL skit with Nicholas Cage and, I think, Laraine Newman.
Cage and his pregnant wife are sitting on their couch trying decide on a name for the baby. She keeps making suggestions. He keeps shooting them down, pointing out all the ways other kids will use the name to make fun of their kid when he gets to be school age.
Then there's a knock on the door. Cage opens it and Garrett Morris says, "Telegram for Asswipe Johnson."
Cage says, "That's Oz-wee-pay."

Joe Biden, America's Putin said...

Changing the word, however, does fall in line with the fact that the left (media/Democrat party co-op) have no problem white-lying for the great good.

rehajm said...

"It's a horrible, unacceptable, racist epithet that's harmful to people so let's all repeat it ten million times by the end of the weekend."

-Shithole Mainstream Media

dreams said...

"Shithole" sounds uglier because "hole" unlike "house" feels like an independent insult.

One refers to a an inanimate object while the other refers to a person, Durbin wanted to make it personal

Limited blogger said...

A shithole is when you dig a small hole, and shit in it. The military is aware of this.

Changing what was said to shithouse doesn't even make sense anymore.

Who's pushing the shithouse version?

rehajm said...

The appraiser would call back to the office and say "it's your basic ****box".

Ha! I remember this too. This must have been the standard industry jargon. I do recall a campaign to adopt the slightly less offensive term rabbit warren.

Owen said...

"Shithoused" meant "really very drunk" back in 1970's college days.

One of my favorite expressions is "as crazy as a shithouse rat," there being no higher state of madness.

I question the idea that somebody misheard or misremembered "shithole" for "shithouse." The"l" and the "s" produce totally different sound-values and would not easily be confused. To me, "shithole" requires a stop or pause as you form the "oh" and the "l," while "shithouse" kind of slides off the tongue.

I offer these observations in a generous spirit to celebrate Prof A's blogiversary. Yay!

MacMacConnell said...

DICK Durbin needs to go on camera and explain why it's appropriate to open his shithole concerning private closed door negotiations. DICK is not an honorable man. He like all Democrat politicians are more concerned about illegal aliens than the American citizens, all one needs to do is read the leaked Palmieri memo to know their goal is to import Democrat voters.

Limited blogger said...

Shitfaced is drunk.

dreams said...

"A shithole is when you dig a small hole, and shit in it. The military is aware of this."

You don't own the definition of shithole, it can also mean the anus.

Limited blogger said...

Piece of shit is an all purpose expression for anything.

Limited blogger said...

I call my anus my asshole, asshole.

Lem the artificially intelligent said...

The issue today is whether Trump said "I'd probably" have good relation with rocket man Kim, or, "I probably" have good relations...

In the audio I hear "I'd" but his detractors probably do not.

Bob Boyd said...

Durbin's first name is sexist!
And maybe transphobic!
In any case, it's not a name that should be used in that setting. Completely inappropriate.

Mr. Majestyk said...

I guess George Snuffleupolous disagrees with Inga, as he seems to think which word Trump used (shithole/shithouse) matters.

dreams said...

"I call my anus my asshole, asshole."

You seem to be nothing but an asshole.

Owen said...

Reinforcing my point about the different sound-values here. Trump reportedly spoke about the PLURAL: "shitholeS" (or "shithouseS.")

But "shitholes" gives you TWO syllables while "shithouses" will give you THREE.

This reduces even further the plausibility of a claim that the word was misheard. We should preserve the original word and its original meaning. Which, as ably explained by Prof A and many others, is not racist in the least.

Limited blogger said...

and your shit don't stink?

J. Farmer said...

Things I couldn't give a shit about for a thousand, Alex.

Fernandinande said...

NASA says there are shitholes on Uranus.

Fernandinande said...

No wait, NASA said that Uranus IS a shithole.

Bob Boyd said...

The Democrats want people reacting emotionally to the man, not thinking about the policy debate because in general Americans are commonsensical and a merit-based system will appeal to them more than a random lottery.

Rusty said...

Well. This sure raised a shitstorm.

I'm with J.
Meh.

robother said...

Why, just the other day, Durbin swears he heard Trump setting aside a day on which Marxist Looters're King.

Darrell said...

What if Durbin was the first person to use the word "shithole" or "shithouse" when summarizing Trump's position? What if this whole thing was a planned op by Democrats?

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Amongst all the shit Trump raised last week it got lost that Trump proposed to limit the first Amendment.

Making America great again.

Bay Area Guy said...

In "Catch-22", there was a character named, Lt. Schiesskopf (Shithead), which always made me laugh.

I guess Trump is a real shithead for calling Haiti a shithole or shithouse.

GRW3 said...

Known fabulist and prevaricator Dick Durbin says Trump said it on the QT as a leak, liked the results and came out and said he said several times. His AB buddy, Lindsey Graham, does not say he said it but he says he didn't like what the Trump said. Straight shooter Tom Cotton says he didn't say it. Guess who I believe.

Narayanan said...

What is one to make of a culture that deems a functional description vulgar and not simply honest and straight forward?

Wince said...

"I could never write that."

"Neither could I, actually. I think it's Bukowski."

Breezy said...

Someone should ask Durbin how the immigration plan he proposes would affect the high murder rate in Chicago. Seems to me that's all he should be working to address. Its a national disgrace. He should be tied to it at every opportunity.

Jason said...

ICH BIN EIN SHITHOUSER!

Bob Boyd said...

What makes a shithouse a home?

Failing to qualify for an immigration visa.

Comanche Voter said...

Lyin' Dick Durbin--the original shithouse mouse.

cubanbob said...

So far, Durban the Dick and his shithouse party have not actually refuted Trump's assertion that those countries he called shitholes (or shithouses) are not actually shitty.

NorthOfTheOneOhOne said...

These modern wussy lefties wouldn't last 20 minutes in a Canadian trailer park!

exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...

Ralph L said...
I thought calling someone a brick shithouse was a compliment.


1/15/18, 8:19 AM

The expression is "built like a brick shithouse."

Everyone knew what "brick house" was actually short for back in the '70's:

"Ow, she's a brick house
She's mighty-mighty, just lettin' it all hang out
She's a brick house
That lady's stacked and that's a fact
Ain't holding nothing back"

OTOH, saying someone is "crazier than a shithouse rat" is not a compliment.

Francisco D said...

It doesn't matter to me if Trump said "shithole" or shithouse." I am more intrigued by the likelihood of Dick Durbin lying.

Durbin used to be my Senator and he is a scumbag. If he were in state government, I would blame him for turning parts of Illinois into a shithole. Instead, that honor goes to John Madigan and his cronies in the Democratic party.

Mrs. X said...

Powerline makes the point that if releasing the quote damages US foreign relations, Durbin should have kept to himself, him being a patriot and all (Obama called Libya a shitshow, which was only released long after the fact). But hey, anything to get that shithead, Trump.

Lyssa said...

This whole thing is a shitshow.

MD Greene said...

I think we'd all be happier if our politicians shut their pieholes for a day. Or, better still, a year.

Just legislate and execute and stop telling us how terrible the other guys are.

Bilwick said...

Not sure how Objective Journalist Stephanopoulos is so sure Trump said what he is reported to have said. Unless further corroboration appeared overnight while I was asleep, at this point we still have only the word of one dubious and partisan source.

n.n said...

Hmm, a transgender connection.

This whole thing is a shitshow.

Created and saved, Obama/Clinton/DNC presiding, and others who didn't build it, but share responsibility.

Anonymous said...

STEPHANOPOULOS said...LOWRY said...

Things no one but a soap opera woman (thanks rh) of either sex gives a shit about.

The shithouse rats bark, but the caravan moves on.

Anonymous said...

WATCH THIS!!! An incredibly eloquent and charismatic Nigerian expat in the US speaks on why his country is , indeed, a shithole and what his fellow Nigerians should do to correct that.

Anonymous said...

William Chadwick: Not sure how Objective Journalist Stephanopoulos is so sure Trump said what he is reported to have said.

Same way he knows that "[b]y denying it, he puts his supporters in the most difficult position". (He pulled it out of his shithole.)

tcrosse said...

Lemme see:
Trump must have actually said that nasty racist stuff because he's a nasty racist.
We know Trump is a nasty racist because he said that nasty racist stuff.
QED.

Anonymous said...

I think you've overlooking another usage: "She's built like a brick shit house," that is, well built, usually taken as "has a great figure." (Apparently for men it means "big and muscular," but I've never personally encountered its use for men.)

On the other hand, since it seems to be a compliment, it's less likely that Trump would have used it for a country he meant to disparage.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“I guess George Snuffleupolous disagrees with Inga, as he seems to think which word Trump used (shithole/shithouse) matters.”

It doesn’t matter which word was used as each word is no less insulting than the other. Does it make ithe shit sandwich taste any better?

Sheesh.

Anonymous said...

This may be a better link. The title is "Nigeria is a shithole country". Watch it! The guy is really impressive.

Yancey Ward said...

Insulting or not, the description of many of these countries is pretty accurate regardless of which word was used- and for what it's worth, where you sit in an outhouse is often called a shit-hole. Usually when you see people going batshit crazy over something someone else has said, it is usually sign an inconvenient truth has been uttered.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Is it not sad that this discussion revolves around whether or not the PResiDenT oF THe uNitED sTatEs described allied nations as a 'shithouse' or a 'shithole'.

I mean, is there anything to salvage here?

Joe Biden, America's Putin said...

Corrupt Leftwing dictators create shitholes.

Fabi said...

"Well she's a brick, house. She's mighty, mighty, just lettin' it all hangout."

Fabi said...

You have to wake up early to be best exiled!

Fabi said...

You're correct, ARM! All those shithole countries will immediately stop taking the billions of dollars in aid we send them every year in protest against Trump.

exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...

The shithouse rats bark, but the caravan moves on.

1/15/18, 9:56 AM

And right on cue, our shithouse rat shows up....

Yancey Ward said...

Allied nations, ARM? In what manner are they allies? They may not be enemies, but let's not get carried away.

exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...

Haiti is a very valuable ally, according to ARM.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

@BillKristol
By the way, Haiti was one of 35 countries that abstained on the UN Jerusalem vote a couple of weeks ago, and was rewarded by being invited to Nikki Haley's party for our friends. Norway of course voted against us.

exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...

I avoid the WaPo these days as much as possible and so I don't know if they still hold a weekly contest with readers submitting puns and quips in response to a given theme. When I subscribed to the paper many years ago, the responses were often quite funny. One that sticks in my mind is a contest they held to come up with alternative state slogans. The winner was "Almost Haiti, West Virginia."

Now, Inga, try to follow along. Did that quip win because it complimented West Virginia? Or did the person who came up with it intend to malign West Virginia by saying it was almost as bad as that shithole Haiti? Why would the WaPo editors have found it amusing enough to award it first place? Could it be because everyone knows Haiti is a shithole?

exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...

AReasonableMan said...
@BillKristol
By the way, Haiti was one of 35 countries that abstained on the UN Jerusalem vote a couple of weeks ago, and was rewarded by being invited to Nikki Haley's party for our friends. Norway of course voted against us.


1/15/18, 10:37 AM

Good for them. Haiti is still a shithole.

As usual, the truth offends ARM and Kristol.

Fabi said...

Bill Kristol

#StrongOprahSupporter

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

A worthwhile question to ask is why don't skilled workers from the countries Trump apparently favors want to come to live and work in the US? Is the US not the actual worker's paradise that the Republican Party portray's it to be? Is it only relative to shithole countries that the US looks like favorable emigration target?

Joe Biden, America's Putin said...

The chorus on the left is that Trump should be impeached or he should resign over .... words.

Words that are in-artful, but true.

The left are collective speech fascists.

Bay Area Guy said...

Venezuela is becoming a giant shithole as we speak. I suppose the Left would chalk it up to "bad luck"

AlbertAnonymous said...

Would it be wrong to ask “who gives a shit?”

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...
The chorus on the left is that Trump should be impeached or he should resign over .... words.


This is, of course, nonsense. The left wants Trump to shit all over everything so that they can win back the House and possibly the Senate. The Shitter in Chief is making that more likely every day.

Joe Biden, America's Putin said...

The worthwhile question to ask is - why can't the US stop the flood of illegals? Why do nations all over the globe have strict immigration polices, but somehow the US cannot.
We must let everyone in, and ignore the immigration laws we already on the books. Why do people who come here illegally get rewarded with amnesty?
All For fear of being called a racist by the left. All so the democrat party can build a permanent underclass and a voter base.

buwaya said...

Its not the US they voted for or against, but Israel.
There is and always has been a powerful antisemitic undercurrent in Europe, which finds its modern acceptable outlet in being anti-Israel.
Even more so now, that all these countries have large numbers of anti-Jewish Muslims. Being anti-Israel is a safe concession to these people.
The motivations in these things (UN votes) are complex and one has to see them from the other (and multiple) points of view.

Both Haiti and Norway are dependencies of the US, in different ways. Haiti is obvious, as it depends on aid and such trade concessions they can use, besides large remittances. Norway depends on being under the umbrella of the Pax Americana, both its North Sea oil industry and its sovereign wealth fund are effectively guaranteed by the US government.

Joe Biden, America's Putin said...

Not nonsense, ARM. Feinstein and the collective left want Trump to resign over.... words.

MacMacConnell said...

I'm trying to remember what celebrities promising to leave the USA if Trump was elected opted to move to Haiti or South America or Central America or any African country. I can't think of any that didn't opt for Canada or England or Western Europe. Celebrities evidently racist all.

Chuck said...

Althouse why are we still guessing about this? Why hasn't the answer become absolutely clear? A major policy discussion, in the Oval Office, with the President, one or more White House staff, a half-dozen U.S. Senators, at least one member of the GOP House leadership...

What is so hard about getting to the bottom of it? Why aren't they all being asked point-blank and giving clear, unequivocal answers?

Durbin has been clear, I think. It is okay if Trump fans don't want to believe Durbin, but he's been clear.

Tom Cotton, as far as I know, hasn't actually denied anything. Cotton has weaseled his way around what he does not recall.

As far as I can tell, Lindsey Graham was clear in a conversation with Tim Scott; but I want Graham questioned directly. In any event, when Durbin says (more indirectly than I'd like) that the news reports were accurate, and Graham says privately to Tim Scott that the news reports were accurate, and the rest of the GOP members in the room won't say directly, then I want a lot more questions asked. Hard, direct questions.

And Althouse; you and your commentariat seem to take Trump at his word, as if he were a person of ordinary credibility. Are you kidding?!?

Trump is the birther/truther/vaxxer, who hung up on reporters when they confronted him about his "John Miller" and "John Baron" tapes. Are you really being serious about an even-handed approach to Trump's credibility? Do you not see him as a completely extraordinary case? If not, why not, given his record of incredible lies and misstatements?

Joe Biden, America's Putin said...

Dianne Feinstein says:

"If the president can’t control himself and lead this country with the authority, dignity and leadership it requires, then he shouldn’t be the president. There’s no room for racism in the Oval Office."

Seeing Red said...

Who here, of a certain age, did NOT shake your shithole to this:

Uh
Um-um-um
Ow she's a brick house
She's mighty mighty just lettin' it all hang out
Ow she's a brick house
Like lady stacked that's a fact ain't holding nothing back
Ow she's a brick house
Well we're together everybody knows this is how the story goes
She knows she got everything that a woman needs to get a man yeah-yeah
How can she lose with the stuff she use?
36-24-36 ow what a winning hand
'Cause she's a brick house


Read more: Commodores - Brick House Lyrics | MetroLyrics

Anonymous said...

Obviously ARM has not bothered to watch the video I linked to. It answers all his questions.

Howard said...

Of course, no one is talking about the negotiation status of immigration reform: mission accomplished!

Trump says, don't worry, I'll take the heat distracting the gullible shitheads who can't reason beyond a turd-rate reality show plot-line while you guys sell the country down the river so the dems can get new "clients" and the reps cheap labor.

buwaya said...

There are a large number of talented people from Europe who do come to the US for their careers. I personally know a few, including a Norwegian, a Dane, a Swede, and several Finns. I am a Spaniard myself, in that same Euro category. The US has several million European-born people currently, what would be seen as significant were it not "hidden" by larger numbers of more visible groups.

The problem in achieving a much higher rate of immigration from Europe is that there is a considerable barrier in the immigration process for "ordinary" people. The extraordinary ones don't have much of a problem. Its actually easier for an ordinary Western European to immigrate to Canada and Australia than the US.

glenn said...

“I thought calling someone a brick shithouse was a compliment.”

Please Leave Gene Tierney out of this.

narciso said...


Does the record matter:

https://www.conservativereview.com/articles/mark-levin-heres-trump-actually-thinks-haitians/

buwaya said...

AFAIK there is no "negotiation status".
The Democrats put down a smokescreen to cover their withrawal.

As for Chuck, I recommend "The Caine Mutiny". The pitfalls of geometric logic are well illustrated.

exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...

ARM, I've heard plenty of Europeans complain that it is very difficult and time-consuming to even get a Green Card to come here. While European immigration would not come close to the waves we experienced during that late 19th and early 20th century, more Europeans of an entrepreneurial bent would come here if they could.

Buwaya is correct in stating that it is easier for Europeans to immigrate to Canada and Australia than the US.

AllenS said...

I'd rather be in a shit house sitting over the shit hole, than to be up shits' creek without a paddle.

tcrosse said...

Trump describsd countries as shitholes. Obama and Hillary helped turn Syria and Libya into shitholes. Compare and contrast.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

buwaya said...
Its actually easier for an ordinary Western European to immigrate to Canada and Australia than the US.


Let's think, are there any other notable differences between Canada, Australia and the US that might make the former two countries more favorable targets for emigration than the US. Let's think really hard on that one. Oh Yes! They both treat working people with respect and have national health schemes.

M Jordan said...

Fernandistein said... No wait, NASA said that Uranus IS a shithole.

Uranus is a shithole. Fact.

mockturtle said...

"Shithoused" meant "really very drunk" back in 1970's college days.

Owen, your college days may have differed from mine but 'shitfaced' was the popular term, IIRC.

mockturtle said...

Sometimes I think Trump drops these gems just to see the MSM get their collective knickers in a twist.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Where we are.

tcrosse said...

They both treat working people with respect and have national health schemes.

They both have merit-based immigration.

narciso said...

Also they are 15 to 110th our population

M Jordan said...

The BIG STORY nobody's talking about in this whole shithouse incident is Lindsay Graham's failed rolling of Trump. Graham had been oiling on the compliments for weeks now, golfing with Trump, thinking he was softening the ninny up. Remember his lugubrious words in that televised gathering last Tuesday: "You're the only one who can pull this off, President Trump"? He probably has been washing his mouth out with soap daily but it would be worth it when he rolled Trump with his Gang of Five and then held up his "deal" to border hawks saying, "Trump's with us!"

But Trump, the ninny, was onto Miss Linday from the get-go. And "Shithouse" -- or "shithole" -- was the result.

Boom! Buh-bye, Miss Lindsay Graham. Flattering got you a big fat nothing. Worse than nothing since you alienated your faux friends in the media who didn't see your ruse.

Excuse me while I say HA HA HA. Trump wins again.

exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...

Oh Yes! They both treat working people with respect and have national health schemes.


1/15/18, 11:19 AM

And ARM, they're also a lot easier to move to!!! Should a third commenter say that once again for you? Will it sink in a third time?

Chuck said...

Is this the new Trump claim? That he said "shithouse"?

I am not playing any Althouse games on what Trump said, as long as Trump is not being clear on what he said.

I'd be very happy to hold Dick Durbin's feet to the fire if Trump would only be clear on what it is that he says he said.

I don't care one bit if Trump thinks he used "tough language." Who cares? I want to know if he said "shithole countries." And if, as so many Trumpkins seem to think, saying "shithole countries" is no big deal and if it is how real people talk in private, then why the grand charade about what Trump said? Why not just own it and go with it and explain it?

Trump clearly wants it both ways, and Althouse seems delighted to play along.

M Jordan said...

Proof Trump was onto Miss Lindsay: he had Tom Cotton and David Perdue waiting ahead of the Gang of Five.

HA HA HA HA HA.

Trump really is a genius.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

We know that Australia and Canada have national health and treat working people better. That is why working people in Europe would favor those countries over the US. It is not particularly easy to emigrate to either of those countries if you aren't considered exceptional or don't have a lot of cash. A few anecdotes don't change reality.

Yancey Ward said...

If the Senate "deal" was as described, then M. Jordan makes a very good point- Graham has been trying to pull Trump into the pro-immigration side in D.C. for the last several weeks. I don't know if Graham expected Cotton and Perdue to be at that meeting, but if not, it is telling that they were, and it does go a long way to explaining why Durbin, at least, decided to get what he could by leaking details of the discussion since it has long been apparent that the present state is preferable to the Democrats than any deal that might actually pass the House and get Trump's signature.

Chuck said...

M Jordan said...
The BIG STORY nobody's talking about in this whole shithouse incident is Lindsay Graham's failed rolling of Trump. Graham had been oiling on the compliments for weeks now, golfing with Trump, thinking he was softening the ninny up. Remember his lugubrious words in that televised gathering last Tuesday: "You're the only one who can pull this off, President Trump"? He probably has been washing his mouth out with soap daily but it would be worth it when he rolled Trump with his Gang of Five and then held up his "deal" to border hawks saying, "Trump's with us!"

But Trump, the ninny, was onto Miss Linday from the get-go. And "Shithouse" -- or "shithole" -- was the result.

Boom! Buh-bye, Miss Lindsay Graham. Flattering got you a big fat nothing. Worse than nothing since you alienated your faux friends in the media who didn't see your ruse.

Excuse me while I say HA HA HA. Trump wins again.


Okay; I take you at your word. Trump was quietly determined to slam the door on any Graham-Durbin compromise.

Then why take a meeting with Graham and Durbin? And why the live-televised dog-and-pony show last Tuesday? Why tell the bipartisan group in the room that he (Trump) would sign anything that they came together and agreed on? Why the lavished praise from Trump going out to everybody in the room, in order, along with the mind-numbing agreement with everybody even when they were suggesting incompatible things?

What has Trump done, to move immigration negotiations in all of this?

What Trump proved to me, was that (a) he doesn't really know much about immigration reform, or (b) about Congressional negotiations, and (c) he is simply a loose cannon on the deck of this ship of state.

Seeing Red said...

It’s actually easier for an ordinary Western European to immigrate to Canada and Australia than the US.....

Western European.

How racist.

Haitians are backlogged in Canada, btw and the Canucks have been sending out representatives in their community and I believe the El Salvadoran communities to tell them fat chance.

Interestingly the Canadians have been stressing LEGAL and LAWFUL immigration.

How many Haitians and El Salvadorans did Canada take in out of curiosity for their natural disasters?

buwaya said...

ARM,

Say that if it makes you feel better, but it just isn't so.
The driver for immigration that is. It is the rules, the backlogs, and the structure of the respective systems.

M Jordan said...

"Okay; I take you at your word. Trump was quietly determined to slam the door on any Graham-Durbin compromise."

No, not exactly. He was quietly determined to have a full debate. Graham and Company, the cool kids, formed their own little posse and thought they could leverage a Trump roll into full amnesty. Trump sniffed out Graham's sudden friendliness weeks ago. So he set up the meeting with counter-representation. He wasn't trying to snuff out Graham's point of view so much as provide a balanced debate.

In his heart of hearts, I'm not sure Trump himself knows where he stands on the whole DACA issue.

Yancey Ward said...

Chuck,

As I wrote- if the Senate deal was as described, and I have no reason to think it isn't being accurately described, then it didn't meet the standard of a bipartisan compromise that Trump laid down Tuesday at the public meeting. The "deal" Graham and Durbin brought to the meeting can't be passed in the House, so it was dead on arrival. The only thing that could have moved that deal in the House was Trump agreeing to it publicly, thereby pressuring the House to agree, but that is explicitly counter to what Trump said on Tuesday.

I don't find it unlikely that Graham was trying to get Trump to take a public stand supporting the Senate "compromise" bill. The way Graham has spoken about Trump prior to Friday was a bit unusual for him- it really did sound like a lot of butter was being applied to Trump, and it is likely that Trump refused to play ball at all at the closed meeting, and the leak is the result. Not at all unfair to Trump, in my opinion- that is politics and how it is played. If Graham and Durbin (and Schumer) want a DACA bill, then they are going to have to work with the House to get it passed- then and only then will Trump likely sign it.

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

If the wrong word was reported, what caused the house-to-hole substitution?

Duh. Racism!

Krumhorn said...

All this crap is just a media shitstorm. He almost certainly said “shithole countries”. That’s the diction associated with the expression. Nobody would say “shithouse countries”. That would be a somewhat idiosyncratic formulation.

But I think it is perfectly craptastic that we are talking about poo rather than paid-off hookers. In other news, the lefties are pulling dingleberries out of their butts.

- Krumhorn

Yancey Ward said...

M Jordan wrote:

"So he set up the meeting with counter-representation. He wasn't trying to snuff out Graham's point of view so much as provide a balanced debate."

Precisely stated.

rcocean said...

Why are American authors, and members of the chattering classes, such Shits?

It seems they can't speak for five minutes without talking about asswipes, assholes, shitheads, shit holes, etc.

Why the obsession with the anus? Is it a Gay thing or were they never toilet trained?

JAORE said...

"A few anecdotes don't change reality."

You mean like all the example of Dreamers on display where each and every one is class valedictorian, an Eagle Scout, and Mother Theresa wanna be?

Those anecdotes?

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

buwaya said...
it just isn't so.
The driver for immigration that is. It is the rules, the backlogs, and the structure of the respective systems.


Since your 'facts' are almost invariably wrong provide some clear documentation for this 'fact'.

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

Durbin has been clear, I think. It is okay if Trump fans don't want to believe Durbin, but he's been clear.

Yep and anybody with eyes saw right through him!

buwaya said...

You first ARM.
I every prior case I have done a bunch of work, then you scuttle off.
Your turn.

Mr. Majestyk said...

Trump probably doesn't announce to the public the precise "tough words" he used because he said them in a private meeting and intended them to remain private.

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

Graham says privately to Tim Scott that the news reports were accurate

Wrong anti-trump LLR propagandist. Graham said the remarks were "basically accurate" with the modifier here performing the same work as the word "virtual," meaning almost but NOT quite the same as quoted by Durbin. Strike two, squid.

Chuck said...

In his heart of hearts, I'm not sure Trump himself knows where he stands on the whole DACA issue.

Again, I agree with you. Never mind his heart (didn't he want a "bill of love"?!?); I don't think Trump knows in his head where he stands on DACA.

Trump was clear enough in the campaign; he was an immigration hard-liner almost beyond belief. Why not stick with that and hammer it? Why all of the incomprehensible soft language?

Chuck said...

Mr. Majestyk said...
Trump probably doesn't announce to the public the precise "tough words" he used because he said them in a private meeting and intended them to remain private.


Too late! Now Trump gets to decide if he is going to be a "liar" or not. Too late for "private."

M Jordan said...

I just spent ten minutes on the interwebs (that's 6 light-years in human time) trying to find out who the senators were in Lindsay Graham's Gang of Six (yes, I must change it from "Gang of Five" to "Gang of Six" now that I have finally discovered the missing senator). Why did it take me so long to learn who these senators were? Because SHITHOLE.

That's on our glorious media. Rather than report the real story going on -- the political manuevering, the points of debate -- they follow the smelly red herring of SHIT.

*In case you're wondering, the Gang of Six includes: "Republicans Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, Cory Gardner of Colorado, and Jeff Flake of Arizona, along with Democrats Richard Durbin of Illinois, Michael Bennet of Colorado, and Robert Menendez of New Jersey." [From an Atlantic article]

NeverTrumpers all, amnesty advocates all.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

buwaya said...
I every prior case I have done a bunch of work, then you scuttle off.


This is a straight up lie. I am pretty familiar with one of these countries, having lived there for some time. You are talking out of your ass. There is no argument from you that there is no health care or that workers aren't treated better in Canada and Australia so I have already 'gone first'.

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

Althouse why are we still guessing about this?

Because an untrustworthy Democrat broke protocol and lied about Trump so that he could cause an international kerfuffle by squealing about a private meeting. Real quality guy, that Durbin! Just couldn't wait to throw a wrench in the DACA works could he?

Damn he reminds me of YOU!

Ralph L said...

Exile, that was the Style Invitational in the WaPo, and it was the best thing in the paper by far.

The commando CO in Waugh's WWII trilogy had a Thunder Box (portable toilet) that the other officers coveted.

Mr. Majestyk said...

Chuck, I don't understand your "too late" comment. Why can't Trump say, "I used tough language but not the language Senator Durbin said I used"?

Guildofcannonballs said...

I don't believe it, it's that shit-box Dodge again."

Yancey Ward said...

On the politics of immigration, I always have to remind people of a pertinent fact that gets overlooked repeatedly by most pundits:

Between January 20th 2009 and January 2011, an amnesty for the Dreamers and all the other illegal immigrants could have been passed easily by the Democrats and signed by Obama. There is a reason it wasn't done. Do I really need to tell you why the Democrats didn't pass such legislation when they had the chance.

Chuck said...

"Shithole-related amnesia..."

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/1/14/16890490/kirstjen-nielsen-shithole

Who believes this shit?

More importantly, who accepts this shit?

M Jordan said...

"Trump was clear enough in the campaign; he was an immigration hard-liner almost beyond belief. Why not stick with that and hammer it? Why all of the incomprehensible soft language?"

Trump had read Ann Coulter's book (that's one more book than Obama read in office). He is, to some degree, influenced by the last person to talk to him, as many have stated. It's not a weakness: it's the modus operandi of many entrepreneurs. The key is having a lot of people speak to him. But I digress.

Was he really all that much of a hard-liner in the campaign? Remember, as Salena Zito told us in what should have been a Pulitizer-prize winning observation, Trump's supporters take him seriously but not literally while his detractors do the opposite. We Trumpkins laughed when he would add 10 feet to the wall's height for this or that. We shouted "Build the wall" with smiles on our faces. We do take him seriously on the essence of that and indeed, he is serious on the essence of that idea. Immigration must be made legal. Lawlessness is chaos.

But how he accomplishes that is part of the adventure. We'll get better control over immigration via Trump, that I can tell you.

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

Who believes this shit?

More importantly, who accepts this shit?


My reaction is more like, "Who clicks through to read that shit?" Not me. Vox? That's for the juicebox mafia crowd, not adults.

Chuck said...

Mr. Majestyk said...
Chuck, I don't understand your "too late" comment. Why can't Trump say, "I used tough language but not the language Senator Durbin said I used"?

I want to know if he said, "shithole countries."

"Tough language" doesn't tell me anything. Did anybody ask, "Mr. President, did you use tough language?" No. They are asking, "Mr. President, did you call some areas of the world 'shithole countries'"?

And you probably want to know why I am so obsessed with that phrase. And the reason is, is because Trump's White House seems to not want to admit it. Yet Trump's base seems happy with it. And they don't get that both ways. Deny it, and tell us exactly what was said, or admit it and own it.

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

We'll get better control over immigration via Trump, that I can tell you.

We've ALREADY got better control over immigration via Trump.

FIFY.

Who needs Mitt's 'self-deporting" when the real world gave us self-restricting immigrants. Lowest illegal immikgrant total in 17 years!

Chuck said...

Vox? That's for the juicebox mafia crowd, not adults.

The Vox story was little more than quotes, from the interview done by Chris Wallace of the Fox News Channel, with a member of the Trump cabinet who was in the Oval Office for the meeting in question. Where Chris Wallace rightly said, "It is pretty shocking language, and to say, ‘I don’t recall,’ seems implausible.”

Of course, "Shithole-related amnesia" was from the Vox writer. That might have been the best line. So you've got me there, Mike.

Seeing Red said...

On the politics of immigration, I always have to remind people of a pertinent fact that gets overlooked repeatedly by most pundits:

Between January 20th 2009 and January 2011, an amnesty for the Dreamers and all the other illegal immigrants could have been passed easily by the Democrats and signed by Obama. There is a reason it wasn't done. Do I really need to tell you why the Democrats didn't pass such legislation when they had the chance.


Was it the same reason why Chappaquidick Ted turned down Nixon's Offer of National Health Care?

Chuck said...

Trump had read Ann Coulter's book...

That's a remarkable claim. It is a remarkable claim that Trump has read any book.

Is there any proof that Trump read that book? I'm quite serious. How do we know that Trump read the book? Has he been asked questions about his reading of the book? Some small measure of proof or confirmation that he read it?

RAH said...

Durbin has lived with Schumer for decades. So that may be where his mind goes

mockturtle said...

You mean like all the example of Dreamers on display where each and every one is class valedictorian, an Eagle Scout, and Mother Theresa wanna be?

Maybe this guy is a 'Dreamer': Greyhound bus chased by police after passengers threatened by illegal alien

Mr. Majestyk said...

Suppose Trump had said "crappy countries," intending that language to remain private. Then Durbin alleges Trump said "shithole countries." It would be perfectly reasonable for Trump to deny Durbin's false accusation without causing another shitstorm (sorry, couldn't help myself) by disclosing to the world to satisfy an anonymous internet blog commenter the exact tough language he used in a private meeting, the confidentiality of which Durbin breached.
Having said all that, it is quite possible Trump said "shithole countries" and is lying about it. Although such lying, if that is what is happening, is regrettable, it is small potatoes compared to so much of what is going on, such as the last administration's possible abuse of the NSA, DOJ,and FBI for partisan political gain. That should be front and center, not the exact tough language Trump used in a private meeting.

mockturtle said...

PS: The perp in the headline above had been deported five times.

Lydia said...

"Proud to Live in a Nation of Holers":

America is a nation of holers. It is an improbable yet wildly successful experiment in the transformation — by means of hope, opportunity and ambition — of holers into doers, makers, thinkers and givers. Are you of Irish descent? Italian? Polish? Scottish? Chinese? Chances are, your ancestors did not get on a boat because life in the old country was placid and prosperous and grandpa owned a bank. With few exceptions, Americans are the dregs of the wine, the chaff of the wheat. If you don’t know this by now, it makes you the wax in the ear.

Chuck said...

Having said all that, it is quite possible Trump said "shithole countries" and is lying about it.

Again, we agree. It is possible. Possible, and more! Given the number of people in the room, and given the number of explicit, exacting denials that Trump said "shithole countries" -- which is zero -- my view is that it is a virtual certainty that Trump said "shithole countries."

Hunter said...

Chuck said...
And you probably want to know why I am so obsessed with that phrase. And the reason is, is because Trump's White House seems to not want to admit it. Yet Trump's base seems happy with it. And they don't get that both ways. Deny it, and tell us exactly what was said, or admit it and own it.

He says he didn't say it, and you don't believe him. Others at the meeting also say he didn't say it, and you don't believe them either. What evidence would you accept? It seems to me that you just want to believe whatever makes you feel good about hating Trump. Like that he's never read a book.

Yes, Trump is an insane dribbling moron. Apparently he tripped and hit his head once and became a billionaire. Or, you know, "daddy's money." Because just anyone can take a few million dollars and multiply it by a thousand into a vast personal fortune. I'm sure you could do even better.

Drago said...

I love it when Chuckie goes all in for his lefty allies.

It tells me there is much right in the world.

With the increasing exposure of chuckues beloved dems abusing the intelligence services, expect Chuck and his lefty allies increasing their volune on insignificant things like which books Trump has read or cursing in the White House.

Chuckie and his lefty allies are clearly also dreading the tax cut impacts which will be felt starting next month.

Suck it up Chuckie. Worse times ahead for your dem allies.

Enjoy!



Hunter said...

The guy who claims he said it has a previous history of lying about things said by Republicans in private meetings in order to paint them as nasty people.

But sure, go on and believe that "virtual certainty"

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

buwaya, what motivation is there for a machinist in Germany or a Scandinavian country to move to the US, much less a line operator? They have better workplace protections and a better safety net in their own country. The US offers very little for these people

The upper classes do move here, although not at a great rate, because they don't need unions and can pay for their own health care, or more likely have their place of employment pay. I have known literally dozens of these people and none of them had any problem emigrating to the US. It is, in fact, quite easy because lawyers from their place of employment do most of the work.

Curious George said...

"Chuck said...
"Tough language" doesn't tell me anything. Did anybody ask, "Mr. President, did you use tough language?" No. They are asking, "Mr. President, did you call some areas of the world 'shithole countries'"?

And you probably want to know why I am so obsessed with that phrase. And the reason is, is because Trump's White House seems to not want to admit it. Yet Trump's base seems happy with it. And they don't get that both ways. Deny it, and tell us exactly what was said, or admit it and own it."

Jesus fucking Christ Cuck, who the fuck is "They." The Trump WH, or his base? You're a lawyer? Sheez. And this is just stupid. They don't need to admit it, because other than it being some stupid gotcha moment for assholes on the left and GOPe cucks like you, NO ONE CARES. Trump's admin didn't leak it. And it's not pertinent. And if many in Trumps base think he did say it and it pleases them...all the better. Trump can get it both ways Corky...they are now. And some Traffic Court lawyer bitching about it on some blog isn't going to change anything.

Curious George said...

"Chuck said...
Again, we agree. It is possible. Possible, and more! Given the number of people in the room, and given the number of explicit, exacting denials that Trump said "shithole countries" -- which is zero -- my view is that it is a virtual certainty that Trump said "shithole countries."

So now what? Your view and a buck and a half will get you a cup of coffee.

Mr. Majestyk said...

Chuck, what is more important to this nation: Trump's possible lying about using the word "shithole" in a private meeting or the Obama Administration's possible abuse of the national security apparatus to influence a Presidential election?

Chuck said...

Hunter said...
...
...
He says he didn't say it, and you don't believe him. Others at the meeting also say he didn't say it, and you don't believe them either. What evidence would you accept?

Has Trump directly answered the question, "Did you use the phrase, "shithole countries"? I don't think he has. There have been a couple of chances for Trump to personally answer it directly, and he hasn't. He's put out a couple of statements that said he has been mischaracterized by the press, and that he admits to having used tough language. But no direct answers to direct questions.

Others at the meeting have not claimed that Trump didn't say "shithole countries."

Durbin said on the record, that those were Trump's exact words.

Graham told Tim Scott that the press reports were basically accurate.

Cotton and Perdue said that they couldn't recall those words being used. Similarly, Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen did not deny it; she said that she couldn't recall it. Which, according to Chris Wallace (and, uh, me) "seems implausible."

Who else might have given an clear and unequivocal statement that Trump DID NOT SAY "SHITHOLE COUNTRIES"?

BarrySanders20 said...

There certainly can be shithole countries. Afghanistan is a shithole. Syria too. Maybe they weren't always shitholes and don't need to be for all time, but right now they are.

So once it is established that there can be shithole countries it's just a matter of deciding which countries are and which aren't shitholes. Reasonable people can differ my friends. I tend to lump present-day Haiti, with its multiple shithouses, into the shithole. I know neighbors who have been there doing the righteous religious work that causes them to skip over the shitholes a few miles away and fly into Haiti to help empty the latrines or whatever specific tasks they do. They are inspired by the faith of the people, but the country itself is a shithole. In fact, they are frequently asked, "Can you get me out of this shithole?"

By the way, in referring to the "Stans" we used to add Shitholistan to the list.

Chuck said...

Mr. Majestyk said...
Chuck, what is more important to this nation: Trump's possible lying about using the word "shithole" in a private meeting or the Obama Administration's possible abuse of the national security apparatus to influence a Presidential election?

Trump is the president. Obama isn't.

I care more about Trump's lying. If there is a serious investigation into credible allegations of criminal activity by or on behalf of the Obama Administration, that's fine with me. I hope that the investigation is solid, and that justice is done.

This comments page is devoted to a blog post about Trump's alleged use of the phrase "shithole countries."

n.n said...

Libya is a progressive shithole forced by a shitshow under cover of immigration reform (a.k.a. refugee crisis).

Drago said...

LLR and "Accidental Leftist" Chuck: "Durbin said on the record, that those were Trump's exact words."

Durbin is a lying weasel democrat who called US troops nazi's.

No wonder you idolize him.

Drago said...

LLR Chuck: "If there is a serious investigation into credible allegations of criminal activity by or on behalf of the Obama Administration, that's fine with me."

LOL

Sure Chuck. Sure.

FullMoon said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Mr. Majestyk said...

Chuck, you care more about whether Trump is lying about using the word "shithole" than whether the previous President abused the national security apparatus for partisan political gain? Really? That's breathtaking. I give you credit for admitting it, though.

Rusty said...

I want to know if he said, "shithole countries."

Why?
It isn't important.
Don't be a shitheel like Durban and let it go.

Drago said...

LLR Chuck is always a useful barometer for what the latest democrat talking points happen to be.

Chuck's comments always correlate perfectly with where the lefty/dem mentality is and what the avenues of attack against the republicans and Trump are and will be.

So in that sense, he is a great addition to the commentariat at Althouse. He serves a much needed purpose.

mockturtle said...

Trump should really have explained, "If I didn't say 'shithole', I certainly meant 'shithole'".

n.n said...

The Democrats and JournoLists think that they have discovered a baby, but it's only a political clump of ...

n.n said...

"If I didn't say 'shithole', I certainly meant 'shithole'"

Any country that has immigration reform, including: refugee crisis, excessive emigration, can rightly be characterized as troubled and unfortunate.

PackerBronco said...

What if Trump referred to those countries as "hellholes" or "shit houses" or "crappy" or any derogatory term you care to name? Remember this was a private conversation and not an official presidential statement. So what's the advantage for Trump (and his allies) to say anything more than "Trump did not say THAT" without specifying what derogatory term he did name? It's like the following conversation:

"Did you call Bernice a lying whore?"

"No, no. I did not call her THAT."

"What did you call her?"

"A lying slut."

Right. Having probably made a derogatory statement in private, his opponents now demand he make a derogatory statement in public and they'll attack him if he does.

So just tell 'em all to 'f off.

In private of course ...

Curious George said...

"FullMoon said...
BTW, last week you were crying because you(and only you) believed Trump when he said he would sign any bill they brought to him. This disproves your repetitive whining about not believing anything Trump says."

That was #IngaKnew. She was taunting Trumpers on not getting a wall.

Ken B said...

There are two issues the media want to confuse. What does the difference matter in terms of judging Trump, and in terms of judging *them*. For the latter this is disastrous. Their reporting was questioned. Rather than go back, dig some more, find the truth they just doubled down. Not it seems they were inaccurate. To deflect they want to emphasize that this doesn’t make Trump look any different. Maybe not, but that is a judgment I can make, I don’t want CNN doing it for me. I want them to be careful, accurate, accountable. They were none of those.
Now they just continue to run their bullshitholes.

trumpintroublenow said...

I don't really see how it matters since he was referring to people, not places. He didn't want any people from these places to immigrate here. So in his mind, people from these places are "unclean" and always will be. That's my take, anyway. Per usual, I'm ready for the personal insults from the Althouse gang.

exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...

That was #IngaKnew. She was taunting Trumpers on not getting a wall.

1/15/18, 1:34 PM

Curious George, Chuck was also wailing that Trump was going to sell all us rubes out on immigration. Chuck's a hardliner on illegal immigration you see. Just like Jeb! and Rubio and the Chamber of Commerce.

Hagar said...

Trump just caught that one on the fly and spun it off in a different direction to give the 24/7 media something else to occupy them and divert attention from whatever he and the leaderships were talking about on the inside.

Shit-hole or shit-house, indeed! These people are not capable of learning.

FullMoon said...

I don't really see how it matters since he was referring to people, not places. He didn't want any people from these places to immigrate here. So in his mind, people from these places are "unclean" and always will be.

That is a lie on your part intended to elicit responses from normal people so that you may play victim. A common theme with some commenters here. Lie, insult, claim victim status. Titty twister still champ.Keep practicing.

Mr. Majestyk said...

Steve, if he had said, "why do we need more people from these dysfunctional societies," would that have been acceptable to you?

trumpintroublenow said...


"That is a lie on your part intended to elicit responses from normal people so that you may play victim. A common theme with some commenters here. Lie, insult, claim victim status. Titty twister still champ.Keep practicing."

What is the lie -- he said he didn't want people from those countries to immigrate here. I expect you feel the same.

Play victim? How would I be doing that. I'm no victim

trumpintroublenow said...

Mr. Majestyk -- So nobody from those countries could make our country a better place? If we had a merit system, it would exclude everyone from those countries? Is that what you believe?

Mr. Majestyk said...

Steve, I didn't say that. I am just trying to get at how he could have expressed that view in what you would consider a non racist way.

Francisco D said...

ARM,

The hospital system I work for spends a lot of money recruiting MDs and RNs from India, Africa and the Middle East. They are pretty successful at it. A very significant percentage of MDs here have English as their second language.

I guess some people see America as a land of opportunity while others, such as ARM, see it as a failure because it has not fully enacted socialism.

Gahrie said...

So nobody from those countries could make our country a better place?

Not nobody, but comparatively few.

If we had a merit system, it would exclude everyone from those countries?

No what it would do, and our current system also does, is skim the cream of the crop off the top of those shitholes, and make them even worse places to live for the people left behind.

Bilwick said...

Of course (and it not only bears repeating, but cannot be stressed enough), the real shithole/Whitehouse remains the collective mind of the "liberal" Hive: a cesspool of toxic ideas from statism to bad economics to envy and class warfare. All this wrapped up in a package of illogic and lies.

Jim at said...

I still don’t see this as a negative comment by Trump. He spoke the truth.

And that's precisely why the left hates it so much. It is the truth.
The racism charge is simply a distraction by stupid people.

Bilwick said...

Odd: typed "shithouse" and this thing self "corrected" without me catching it to "Whitehouse." An anti-Trump mole in the internal workings?

Gahrie said...

And you probably want to know why I am so obsessed

Ahh, but the strawberries that's... that's where I had them. They laughed at me and made jokes but I proved beyond the shadow of a doubt and with... geometric logic... that a duplicate key to the wardroom icebox DID exist, and I'd have produced that key if they hadn't of pulled the Caine out of action. I, I, I know now they were only trying to protect some fellow officers...

trumpintroublenow said...

"No what it would do, and our current system also does, is skim the cream of the crop off the top of those shitholes, and make them even worse places to live for the people left behind."

You don't think the cream of the crop wants to help their country? I'm sure many of them want to come here and get an education and see our our system of government and free enterprise works precisely so they can help their country.

Anyways, I thought America First means we shouldn't care whether they may be worse off as a result of some action that makes us better off.

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